Update: Norm Thompson "Rewards"

As mentioned in a fairly lengthy and linked description here yesterday, a sustantial number of people have unwittingly fallen into a net either set up by, or on behalf of, local retailer Norm Thompson Outfitters. As Professor Laurie Fendrich described her experience in 2010:  Last May, my husband charged our Discover card for a sports jacket he purchased online from Norm Thompson, a company specializing in clothing for travelers. Because our Discover card statement covers almost our entire buying for the month, with many items under 20 bucks, it’s usually at least three pages long, with a four-figure total. Since I do the bills in my family, and because I’m very busy, I mostly merely scan the statement before then always paying the bills in full.  A single charge under $20 is not going to ratchet up the total enough for me to notice something’s wrong. Periodically, however, I sit down and give the statement a more careful review. Lo and behold, two weeks ago I found a peculiar monthly charge of $14.95 for something called “Norm Thompson Rewards.” The charge started appearing the previous May, when my husband bought the jacket. Ninety dollars paid so far, not counting the current invoice.

Since she discovered this, she did some nosing around and ran across many of the same links to complaints that were provided in yesterday's post here. She went even further, finally uncovering the corporate headquarters phone number. Now, it gets interesting: There I talked with the “Compliance Coordinator” who told me that most people were very happy with the Norm Thompson Rewards program. She offered the information that Norm Thompson, as of this past June, actually owns Norm Thompson Rewards.

It's especially interesting because when I spoke with an NT customer service rep and mentioned this finding, she denied it. She did, however, transcribe much of our conversation to forward higher up the food chain, and asked me to call "the other company" as well.

Before calling "the other company", I did some further digging of my own, and what I turned up was even more illuminating:

It appears that the venerable "Oregon" store, Norm Thompson, is among several of the entity known as "Orchard Brands". I've determined the identity of the guy who claims to have been responsible for, in 2008, the "Rewards code program implementation" for Norm Thompson Outfitters. This, as some may know, is about when phony charges began occurring. Orchard Brands, Norm Thompson Outfitters, Appleseed’s, Blair, Draper’s & Damon’s, Haband, Arizona Mail Order, Solutions, and Sahalie are all part of the same outfit.

The guy lives in the area of Portland, OR, his name is Dave Lamb, and here is a link to his data: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dave-lamb/8/349/a82.

I wrote a brief email to Norm's customer service department, noting my findings, and mentioned the terms "credit card fraud" and Oregon Attorney General.

When I called "Norm Thompson Rewards" ("the other company"), the call was quickly answered, and the guy on the end of the line stated that he would cancel "my" account and credit my card with $29. That wasn't quite good enough, so he offered $59.80. When that didn't work, he had to get "Kevin" on the line. He ended up offering to "make an exception" and credit the card $120, although he explained that many people were very happy with the Rewards program, adding that I must have opted in. Ive been around the net long enough to know that wasn't the case, but thanked him and told him I'd be in touch.

Apparently while occupied with "Kevin", the following came back via email:

Thank you for contacting Membership Services,

Per your request, the membership # xxxxxxxx has been cancelled.  A refund has been processed, 12 credits in the amount of $14.95 for a total of $179.40.

Please note, as our system can only process credits back to the member’s card for billing occurring within one calendar year of the date of the refund, the additional credits, totaling $241.15, are in check form made payable to the member and sent to the address on file:

I must say that the turnaround time was considerably faster than anticipated.

 

Comments

[T D]

This is where government oversight shines and why you want to be served by the private sector but able to rattle their cages with insurance commissioners, attorney generals and the like. When you are served by government, there is no one to rattle their cage.

[Max]

I've long argued for limited government - but never for no government. At the same time, I don't depend on government: when going into a confrontation, as in this case, I gather a lot of information. One cannot expect to negotiate successfully in the absence of documentation.

I suspect that several factors apply, here: I had evidence that, denials aside, these companies are interconnected. Moreover, I had documentation of other occurrences as cited above, and I had the identity of the individual responsible for implementing the program code; cumulatively, these data represent an insurmountable obstacle to successful defense of corporate actions.

Do they want Dave Lamb called to discuss his activities in this regard? Likely not.

Interestingly, I received a follow-up call this morning, which caller id showed came from "Orchard Brands". The caller identified herself as a representative of the president of Norm Thompson Outfitters, and the purpose of her call was to confirm that all charges have been credited back to my card. She was really quite nice.

Remember, when I mentioned to the customer service rep that these companies were all linked under Orchard Brands, the assertion was denied.

In any event, she assured me that they have made changes to their website in order to "ensure that people have a full understanding" of the program. I suggested that it would be in their best interest to terminate the "program", but they are apparently continuing to "fine-tune" it.

It seems obvious that what has transpired is this: they got caught, and I have the goods on them. So it's easier to pay me back and then carry on - there are, after all, hundreds, if not thousands of people out there who are still paying $15 a month for nothing.

[T D]

My dad was having trouble with an out of state headquartered mortgage company which had charged him for unwanted insurance in case of death or disability. He worked with them for months. Nada. Went to the Oregon insurance commissioner, and the funds were refunded post haste and very politely.

[Max]

I suspect that the primary differences were: extreme preparation before contact. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that your dad didn't have Internet access - or that if he did, he was like my mom and dad and didn't know squat about how to use it. I had a lot of data, including actual names and biographical information, complaint records, etc.

And when I contacted them armed with this information, I mentioned a keyword: fraud. And I also stated explicitly that if necessary I was perfectly comfortable with working with representatives of the OAG office.

Not a problem; I believe very strongly in negotiating from a position of strength.